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Old 10-24-2004, 11:52 PM   #16
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Thanks for the info.
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Old 10-25-2004, 02:56 PM   #17
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Default Diesels....

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Old 10-25-2004, 07:39 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jr9162
See http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=1933.0

If you use the AX5 bellhousing you'll want to use a Toyota W56 tranny and gear driven Tcase. See this site for info regarding the Toyota trannys: http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/faq/parts/

If you want a top shifting gearbox and Tcase use a 85-88' W56. If you want a forwarding shifting gearbox and Tcase use a 89-95' W56 and Tcase. Marlin says the W56 is 50% stronger than the G52/G54's. The 86-87' R151F and 23 splined Tcase is 100% stronger than the G52/G54. However, the R151F will need an AX15 bellhousing and most likely an AX15 input shaft and input shaft bearing retainer swap to work with your configuration. That means a complete tranny teardown.

If you use the W56, consider Marlin's HD kit. See http://www.marlincrawler.com/trans.html

Greg, did I get it all right?

JR
Well, mostly right JR. There is no bellhousing to mate the AX5 (or Toyota G and W) to a Jeep 4.2L. He has to go with the AX15 to 4.0L bell for this one. The rest regarding the R151F is correct.

Greg
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Old 10-27-2004, 02:05 AM   #19
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Default bellhousings

Look at the thread TDI conversion on the Conversions forum at www.toyotadieselmadness.com for info on this issue.

From e-mail correspondence with several people in Australia I gather that Toyota offered all the following L series diesel engines in the Hilux and Surf (4Runner): 1L, 2L, 3L, and 5L. I understand they all have the same block to bellhousing bolt pattern and motor mounts. Some came with G52/G54, W56, and R150F gearboxes. The latter, of course, would include the Toyota chain driven T-case.

So if one is attaching a W56 to a L series block they'd use one bellhousing. The R150F requires the other bellhousing. However, the 85-87 R151F turbo gearbox has a shorter input shaft than the later R150F and will not work with the Toyota diesel bellhousing in a stock configuration.

However, Hino and Dyna used the 3L and 5L Toyota diesel engines in their trucks with a Dyna R452 transmission. I do know Marlin, www.marlincrawler.com, uses R452 gearsets in the R151F gearbox to obtain a 5.15:1 1st gear ratio.

Thus, I presume one can use the R452 to 3L/5L diesel bellhousing to attach a 85-87' R151F to any L series block.

Today, I ate lunch with Erik, who used an ACME adapter to fit his VW 1.9 turbo diesel (not TDI) to a Toyota gearbox and bellhousing in his Suzuki Samuari. The ACME kit for the Suzuki (using the Suzuki or Toyota gearbox) is basically a bolt in affair.

JR
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Old 11-09-2004, 11:15 PM   #20
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However, the R151F will need an AX15 bellhousing and most likely an AX15 input shaft and input shaft bearing retainer swap to work with your configuration. That means a complete tranny teardown.



^^^^

does that mean that with the ax15 bellhousing and input shaft that the r151f would mate to a tranny the same as a w56. I am trying to find a way to mate it with a 7mgte.
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Old 11-10-2004, 10:38 PM   #21
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Well a R151F or R150F will not mount to the same bellhousing as the W56 or G52/G54.

I've speculated that one might be able to swap a AX15 input shaft and input shaft bearing reatainer into a R151F and bolt the gearbox to a 7M-GTE bellhousing. The tricky part is getting the hydraulic throwout bearing assy and a clutch disc to work with the AX15 parts...

JR
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Old 11-17-2004, 04:15 PM   #22
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Default R151F to 7M-GTE block

Thanks to John Douglas http://members.ozemail.com.au/~jonhel5/
I learned that Marks makes an adapter to mate the R150F, and/or R151F (both with 165 mm or 6.5 inch long input shafts) to a G52/54 or W56/W58 bellhousing.

See http://members.iinet.net.au/%7Eozrun...apterR150.html . I am waiting on the Marks part number. This unit should be available in the US via Advance Adapters - Marks agent in North America.

So just take your turbo Supra 7M-GTE block, use a 5M-GE flywheel - clutch assembly - and (W58) bellhousing assembly, this adapter, and mount your trusty R151F to the engine. No more trashed G52/G54 or W56's!

JR
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Old 11-18-2004, 10:59 PM   #23
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The part number for that adapter plate is MFK 750 cost is $375 (Australian ?) from the Marks factory in Melbourne. It adds 16mm to the length of the drivetrain. I'm waiting on clarification if it requires removal of the input shaft bearing retainer/cover on the R150F/R151F/R452

JR
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Old 11-19-2004, 12:08 AM   #24
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Default Automatic bellhousings

Isuzu guru Dan Houlton at www.4x4wire.com has infomation regarding the swapping of bellhousings between Aisin automatic transmissions in Jeeps and Toyotas.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

"A quick run-down.

The A340 is a very popular tranny in different variants. The key thing is that the main body is the same regardless of what manufacture is using it. Things like bell housings, torque converters, output shafts, tail housings and internal clutches, etc, are different depending on what it's in. *ALL* variances are handled in the bell and tail housing. i.e, something with a big, thick TC will account for that with a big, deep bell housing.

You can swap the bell housing that fits your motor, to an A340 from a different vehicle. This will let you physically bolt it up, but you'll need to account for electronics / TCM yourself. Hardware like the TCM and wiring harness may be very similar, or even the same between makes / models, but I'm unsure of that. The programming will certainly be vehicle specific though.

So...

A340H
This has a hydraulic t-case. Not sure what that means, but it is integral to the tranny. You need to pull the t-case apart to get to the bolts to remove it from the tranny.
This is what Isuzu used in the 2.6 Trooper. They called it the 30-80LE
Used by Toyota early on too.

A340E
2wd version of the A340. No t-case, just a 2wd tail housing. Probably different output shaft variants for different manufactures too.

A340F
Used specifically by Toyota I think starting around '94 or '95. This uses a mechanical, chain-drive t-case. If you want Marlin Crawlers, you can use this tranny, his parts/adapters, toy t-cases and whatever bell, TC, flexplate that will fit your motor.

Some are 21 spline outputs (early 4cyl maybe?). Most I think are 23 spline. If you've got parts already, this could be a good drivetrain. To buy all new though, for tranny (used) and a complete Marlin dual-tcase crawler setup with all the adapters need, the dual t-cases, 4.7's in one case, etc., you're looking at *at least* $2500. That's the main reason I didn't go this route, as I have *no* Toy parts starting out.

AW4
Jeep variant. Used a mechanical t-case, usually a NP-231. The tail housing is the common 6-bolt pattern though, so there's a ton of NP/NV t-cases that'll bolt up. Mine has a big sticker that says 30-40LE

It's also 21/23 spline. It seems the cutoff date is around '91. Before that, it was 21 or 23 depending on the engine. After that, they were all 23 spline.

These were used in a couple different models in different years I think. It's been the auto in nearly every Cherokee though. There's a ton of these out there and it's very cheap compared to a Toy A340F.

Note: According to Marlin, the Jeep 23 spline is *not* the same as the Toyota 23 spline. The shaft on the AW4 is about 1" - 1.5" longer than the Toy A340F, but I thought originally you could still use Marlin's adapters with an extra spacer. He says the shaft diameters are different though. Off by 30 thou or something. Spline pitch is probably different too.

AW4's also used 2 different OD ratios. Early ones were the typical .7:1 ratio. Again, don't know the cutoff, but by around '95 or so, all were using a shallower .75:1 OD. If you search the www.naxja.org forums for AW4, you'll find a ton of info on these.


Theres a bunch more too. The A343 was an upgraded A340. Can't remember specifics though on 2wd/4wd or vehicles. There is also a version behind some big, V8 luxo SUV that uses a much larger and deeper torque converter and a larger input shaft to account for it. That's the only variant that has a different input shaft that I can think of though.


So, in general, if your particular motor used one of these, you could obtain the bell housing, torque converter and flexplate for that motor/tranny combo, and bolt it to any other A340 variant. Use a Toy A340F to run Toy t-cases and Marlin crawlers. Use a Jeep AW4 for NV/NP t-cases, Klune-V's, Atlas II's, Dana 300, etc. "

--------------------

"Now, what's really cool about this (and is what pushed me over the edge finally) is the tidbit Jerry dropped that I mentioned earlier. The '03 or '04 Isuzu's now use the AW tranny again behind the 3.5. In doing so, they produced a new bellhousing to mate the two. This bell bolts to the 60 deg Chevy pattern in the 3.5 block. So, after my engine swap, I'll be able to get a bell housing from Isuzu that'll bolt this new drivetrain to my 4.9 Caddy motor. Will need to figure out a torque converter / flexplate for it, but that's a pretty minor issue I think.

This also means that it'll bolt to several engines (Isuzu 3.2/3.5, GM 2.8/3.1/3.4, Isuzu 2.3/2.6, Caddy V8's including the Northstar, the 3.5 Olds shortstar, GM supercharged 3800, multiple Toyota engines including the turbocharged Supra, the Tundra V8, and on and on), all with factory bell housings. These tranny's have a very good reputation for being strong and reliable. But, with big V8 power, a stock tranny may not last long and will need a HD re-build on it. Built this way, it does last behind 600 hp Supra's, and heavy, TRD supercharged 4-Runner/Tacoma/Tundra/Sequoia trucks as well. "


Dan Houlton
houlster@inficad.com

Links to Dans info and Supercharged Buick 3800 swap:

http://www.4x4wire.com/forums/showfl...fpart=all&vc=1

http://www.4x4wire.com/forums/showfl...fpart=all&vc=1

Pic 1. Dan Houlton's Isuzu auto bellhousing hooked up to a Buick Supercharged 3800 V6. (Photo by Dan Houlton)

PS. Good info JR! There's always more than one way to skin a cat!

Greg
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Old 11-21-2004, 01:38 AM   #25
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Okay Greg,
Let me see if I got this right. If I use a 96-00 Dodge Dakota bellhousing I can bolt a 151F toyota tranny to this. And I can then bolt this to a 60 degree Chevy engine such as the 3.8 supercharged FWD. Am I tracking with all this?
Now it my 2.5 ltr engine & Ax-5 tranny what Toyota trannies would swap to my stock motor? Will my bellhousing also bolt to a 60 degree GM engine?

If what you are saying will work then I can see a 60 degree GM supercharged motor, Toyota 151 tranny with import gears & am Marlin dual crawler box going into my Jeep. So please tell me what I would have to do to make this combo work. Also with most of those FWD engine where can you get a flywheel & clutch because aren't most of them autos?

Thanks for your help
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Old 11-22-2004, 03:24 AM   #26
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WOW this is some deep and confusing sh@t !!! I have a 2.5 and ax-5,dont wanna put any money in the ax-5 , is it possible to just convert to ax-15 or nv-3550 ??? As cheap as possible.
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Old 11-22-2004, 12:37 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94JEEP
WOW this is some deep and confusing sh@t !!! I have a 2.5 and ax-5,dont wanna put any money in the ax-5 , is it possible to just convert to ax-15 or nv-3550 ??? As cheap as possible.

Yes you sure can swap in a AX-15, there is a big writeup on pirate about it. Go there and do a search. Just to give you the basics, you need a bellhousing from a 96-00 Dakota and then you can swap in the AX-15. There is more to it than that.
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Old 11-22-2004, 03:23 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildman4x4nut
Okay Greg,
Let me see if I got this right. If I use a 96-00 Dodge Dakota bellhousing I can bolt a 151F toyota tranny to this. And I can then bolt this to a 60 degree Chevy engine such as the 3.8 supercharged FWD. Am I tracking with all this?
Now it my 2.5 ltr engine & Ax-5 tranny what Toyota trannies would swap to my stock motor? Will my bellhousing also bolt to a 60 degree GM engine?

If what you are saying will work then I can see a 60 degree GM supercharged motor, Toyota 151 tranny with import gears & am Marlin dual crawler box going into my Jeep. So please tell me what I would have to do to make this combo work. Also with most of those FWD engine where can you get a flywheel & clutch because aren't most of them autos?

Thanks for your help
Well, I believe I committed a cardinal sin in posting technical information. "Thou shalt NOT give out bad info!" I'll have to back off on some info about adapting the R151F to an AX15 bellhousing until I get further clarification from Marlin. In short. Swapping the long early AX15 input shaft into an R150F is not a problem because the first gear ratio's are the same. If you do this to an R151F, I believe you'd lose the first gear ratio that everybody wants in the first place. So... CAN you do it? Yes. SHOULD you do it? No.

As has also been pointed out previously, the 96 and later R150F has a longer input shaft anyway, so using that with an AX15 bellhousing is less of an issue. So...if you have an 95 and earlier R150F, either rebuild it with an AX15 input shaft or, just trade up to a later one.

The Dakota and Jeep 2.5 bellhousings have the 60 degree GM bolt pattern but the starter pocket is on the right (passengers) side. Most RWD GM 60 degree engines have the starter on that side as well. Most FWD GM 60 degree engines have the starter on the left (drivers) side. If you use an FWD engine, you'll have to cut the bellhousing for clearance or use a mini-starter which may fit without slicing. The Toyota W & G series transmissions will bolt up to the AX5 bellhousing (Note info in previous post).

If you're talking about dropping a Buick 3800 V6 into your chassis, you can get a flywheel from a Camaro or Firebird. The engine was available in them with a stick. The same applies to a 3.4L V6.

Anyway, I'll take the hit on the suspect info about the R151F. Until somebody can tell me different... I've also edited my previous posts to reflect the info change.

Greg

Last edited by Greg55_99 : 12-19-2004 at 02:44 PM.
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Old 11-23-2004, 04:08 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg55_99
The Dakota and Jeep 2.5 bellhousings have the 60 degree GM bolt pattern but the starter pocket is on the right (passengers) side. Most RWD GM 60 degree engines have the starter on that side as well. Most FWD GM 60 degree engines have the starter on the left (drivers) side. If you use an FWD engine, you'll have to cut the bellhousing for clearance or use a mini-starter which may fit without slicing. The Toyota W & G series transmissions will bolt up to the AX5 bellhousing (Note info in previous post).

If you're talking about dropping a Buick 3800 V6 into your chassis, you can get a flywheel from a Camaro or Firebird. The engine was available in them with a stick. The same applies to a 3.4L V6.

Anyway, I'll take the hit on the suspect info about the R151F. Until somebody can tell me different...

Greg
Greg thanks for all the awesome info.

Okay so if I use a FWD engine I will have to cut the bellhousing to make it a left hand side starter? What is a mini starter? What would happen if you just put the starter in on the right side? Would it rotate backwards? If that is the case couldn't you just rewire the starter to rotate the other direction?

Wildman
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Old 12-19-2004, 10:06 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greg55_99
If your Jeep (or car) has a Ford pattern T5 and you'd like to swap in any engine with the GM 60 degree bolt pattern, then either the 94-95 S10 2.2L bellhousing or the mid-eighties Jeep 2.5L bell might be what you want (NOT the Iron Duke one). The one you use depends on which side the starter is on...
Greg55_99, what model Jeep should I use in a lookup on www.car-part.com to find the correct bell housing?

I tried using a 1985 Jeep Cherokee (except Grand Cherokee) and then selected the option of "gasoline w/top cover trans" and came up with two pages of bell housings and they do list the 2.5 with T5 (and T4) and also the 2.8 with T5 which is the 60 degree V6. The T5s they list, are they the Ford transmission bolt pattern?

I am trying to put a Ford V8 spec T5 (with the 2.95 1st) behind a GM 3.4l V6.

Thanks!

Paull
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